Discussion:
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
(too old to reply)
Bill McGinnis
2003-12-01 05:01:21 UTC
Permalink
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION


The underlying question: Is it unconstitutional for the government
to promote "Theism," by using such phrases as, "In God we trust," and
"God bless America," and by praying to God as part of a government
function?

Note to Journalists: This is a hot subject, coming up soon
for Supreme Court attention, many think. I'm not simply
grinding some dull religious axe. These are some of the arguments
we will be hearing, I expect. Culture wars, big-time.



IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION

by Bill McGinnis, Public Domain


Elsewhere, I presented the idea that Atheism is a religion, the religion
whose belief about God is that there is no God. Please see
http://essaysandcommentaries.com/thereligionofatheism.txt and also my
newsgroups post entitled "ESTABLISHING THE RELIGION OF ATHEISM."

As expected, the hard-core Atheists objected venomously, with their
typical ad hominem attacks, such as "you Moron,"(***@newscene.com), and
"how utterly full of sh*t you are," (***@bizniz.net), and "Frickin'
moron," (***@null.none).

Okay. Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that Atheism is not a
religion. What then? What is it? How would you try to define it? If it is
not a religion, then what is it? Maybe it's a philosophy! Okay . . . But
if Atheism is a philosophy, not a religion, then Theism must also be a
philosophy, not a religion, by whatever definitions of "philosophy" and
"religion" you choose to use. And if Atheism and Theism are both
philosophies, then neither is a religion, and there is no basis for
pretending that Theism is un-Constitutional.

So we see that . . .

IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH RELIGIONS, THEN ATHEISM AND THEISM BOTH
MUST BE SUPPRESSED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, JUST AS CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, AND
ISLAM ARE SUPPRESSED. THIS MEANS YOU CANNOT TEACH THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION
AS FACT, BECAUSE THAT IS ESTABLISHING ATHEISM AS THE STATE RELIGION.

IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH PHILOSOPHIES, THEN NEITHER ONE IS A
RELIGION, AND THEISM CAN BE FREELY EXPRESSED: THAT IS, MENTIONING GOD IN
ANY PUBLIC PLACE IS PERFECTLY CONSTITUTIONAL, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT TEND
TO "ESTABLISH" ANY PARTICULAR GOD-BASED RELIGION, SUCH AS CHRISTIANITY,
JUDAISM, OR ISLAM.

SO "GOD BLESS AMERICA," "IN GOD WE TRUST," AND PRAYING TO GOD IN PUBLIC
ARE ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

Blessings to you in the name of the One God, Who created all things.


Rev. Bill McGinnis, Director ***@patriot.net

http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://PracticalDemocracy.org

. . . and related websites listed at
http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/chapellinks.html
Steve
2003-12-01 05:21:16 UTC
Permalink
<snipped the post>

Why cant you understand a really simple concept ?

Theism is a belief in a deity
Atheism is the opposite of this..i.e no belief in a deity

how can two opposing views be defined as the same ?

how can no belief in a deity be a religion ?

i *dont* worship anything ...do you understand this ??

In your post you draw a false analogy...then use this false analogy to prove
your point.. uh-oh,.... bahhhh...sorry you dont win a prize..

and you shouldnt type in caps.... it doesnt make your illogical post anymore
appealing.

steve
JTEM
2003-12-01 05:32:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS
NOT A RELIGION
Atheism isn't a religion and theism is a religion. Period.

As compelling as you may find your use of the cap-lock, I'm
afraid that you simply haven't the power to re-order the
universe to suit your agenda.

You're welcome.
Woden
2003-12-01 05:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
(snip bullshit)

Why do you continue to spread lies and untruths when you have been
corrected numerous times already?
--
Woden

"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
Ron Baker
2003-12-01 06:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
That is false. Religion/theism is a belief in god or the supernatural.
Atheism includes no belief in anything supernatural.
Atheism is not a religion.
Post by Bill McGinnis
The underlying question: Is it unconstitutional for the government
to promote "Theism," by using such phrases as, "In God we trust," and
"God bless America," and by praying to God as part of a government
function?
The answer is that it is unconsititutional because it endorses
one, or a category, of religious beliefs over other religious
beliefs.

Are Buddhists and Hindus accepted as US Americans?
If so then "In God we trust" is not true for all US Americans.
It is certainly no more true than "In Vishnu we trust".

If we allow "In God we trust" to be printed on the currency
then "In Vishnu we trust" should be printed on the currency.

If you argue that the majority of Americans are Christian
then I will argue that the proportion of bill printed
with "In God we trust" should be no greater than the
proportion of Christians in the US.
They don't come here.
Post by Bill McGinnis
This is a hot subject, coming up soon
for Supreme Court attention, many think. I'm not simply
grinding some dull religious axe. These are some of the arguments
we will be hearing, I expect. Culture wars, big-time.
Small time.
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
by Bill McGinnis, Public Domain
Elsewhere, I presented the idea that Atheism is a religion, the religion
whose belief about God is that there is no God. Please see
http://essaysandcommentaries.com/thereligionofatheism.txt and also my
newsgroups post entitled "ESTABLISHING THE RELIGION OF ATHEISM."
As expected, the hard-core Atheists objected venomously, with their
Wellcome to the public forum.
(And don't stereotype.)
Post by Bill McGinnis
Okay. Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that Atheism is not a
religion. What then? What is it? How would you try to define it? If it is
not a religion, then what is it? Maybe it's a philosophy! Okay . . . But
if Atheism is a philosophy, not a religion, then Theism must also be a
philosophy, not a religion, by whatever definitions of "philosophy" and
"religion" you choose to use. And if Atheism and Theism are both
philosophies, then neither is a religion, and there is no basis for
pretending that Theism is un-Constitutional.
From Merriam-Webster Online:
"Religion: the service and worship of God or the supernatural"

Atheism is not a religion.
Post by Bill McGinnis
So we see that . . .
No.
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH RELIGIONS, THEN ATHEISM AND THEISM BOTH
MUST BE SUPPRESSED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, JUST AS CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, AND
They are not suppressed. They may not be established by the government.
Post by Bill McGinnis
ISLAM ARE SUPPRESSED. THIS MEANS YOU CANNOT TEACH THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION
AS FACT, BECAUSE THAT IS ESTABLISHING ATHEISM AS THE STATE RELIGION.
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH PHILOSOPHIES, THEN NEITHER ONE IS A
RELIGION, AND THEISM CAN BE FREELY EXPRESSED: THAT IS, MENTIONING GOD IN
ANY PUBLIC PLACE IS PERFECTLY CONSTITUTIONAL, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT TEND
TO "ESTABLISH" ANY PARTICULAR GOD-BASED RELIGION, SUCH AS CHRISTIANITY,
JUDAISM, OR ISLAM.
SO "GOD BLESS AMERICA," "IN GOD WE TRUST," AND PRAYING TO GOD IN PUBLIC
ARE ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
Constitutional, for an individual to express.
Post by Bill McGinnis
Blessings to you in the name of the One God, Who created all things.
Bless somebody who needs it.
Mark Richardson
2003-12-01 06:40:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 05:01:21 -0000, Bill McGinnis
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
IF CHICKENS ARE EDIBLE BIRDS THEN SO ARE FISH!

Mark.

--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau

Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)

-----------------------------------------------------
Mark Richardson
2003-12-01 06:43:10 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 05:01:21 -0000, Bill McGinnis
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
Duh!
Theism is not a religion.

Christianity is a religion. Judaism is a religion.

Mark.

--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau

Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)

-----------------------------------------------------
Kate
2003-12-01 07:41:08 UTC
Permalink
Yup - still a moron that makes no sense.

Not promoting religion is secularism not atheism.

For the government to promote atheism it would have to tell people
that there is no god. It doesn't matter whether it's a religion or
not - it still is not allowed to be promoted by government.

And it's not. Only Christianity and Theism is being promoted by the
Government in violation of the first amendment.

How many times do you have to be told this to get it through your
thick head?


On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 05:01:21 -0000, Bill McGinnis
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
The underlying question: Is it unconstitutional for the government
to promote "Theism," by using such phrases as, "In God we trust," and
"God bless America," and by praying to God as part of a government
function?
Note to Journalists: This is a hot subject, coming up soon
for Supreme Court attention, many think. I'm not simply
grinding some dull religious axe. These are some of the arguments
we will be hearing, I expect. Culture wars, big-time.
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
by Bill McGinnis, Public Domain
Elsewhere, I presented the idea that Atheism is a religion, the religion
whose belief about God is that there is no God. Please see
http://essaysandcommentaries.com/thereligionofatheism.txt and also my
newsgroups post entitled "ESTABLISHING THE RELIGION OF ATHEISM."
As expected, the hard-core Atheists objected venomously, with their
Okay. Just for the sake of discussion, let's say that Atheism is not a
religion. What then? What is it? How would you try to define it? If it is
not a religion, then what is it? Maybe it's a philosophy! Okay . . . But
if Atheism is a philosophy, not a religion, then Theism must also be a
philosophy, not a religion, by whatever definitions of "philosophy" and
"religion" you choose to use. And if Atheism and Theism are both
philosophies, then neither is a religion, and there is no basis for
pretending that Theism is un-Constitutional.
So we see that . . .
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH RELIGIONS, THEN ATHEISM AND THEISM BOTH
MUST BE SUPPRESSED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, JUST AS CHRISTIANITY, JUDAISM, AND
ISLAM ARE SUPPRESSED. THIS MEANS YOU CANNOT TEACH THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION
AS FACT, BECAUSE THAT IS ESTABLISHING ATHEISM AS THE STATE RELIGION.
IF ATHEISM AND THEISM ARE BOTH PHILOSOPHIES, THEN NEITHER ONE IS A
RELIGION, AND THEISM CAN BE FREELY EXPRESSED: THAT IS, MENTIONING GOD IN
ANY PUBLIC PLACE IS PERFECTLY CONSTITUTIONAL, AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT TEND
TO "ESTABLISH" ANY PARTICULAR GOD-BASED RELIGION, SUCH AS CHRISTIANITY,
JUDAISM, OR ISLAM.
SO "GOD BLESS AMERICA," "IN GOD WE TRUST," AND PRAYING TO GOD IN PUBLIC
ARE ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL UNDER THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
Blessings to you in the name of the One God, Who created all things.
http://LoveAllPeople.org
http://PracticalDemocracy.org
. . . and related websites listed at
http://patriot.net/users/bmcgin/chapellinks.html
Brian Westley
2003-12-01 08:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
Correct; theism isn't a religion. It's a tenet of most
religions, but "theism" itself isn't a religion, and
atheism isn't a religion, either.

---
Merlyn LeRoy
Robibnikoff
2003-12-01 14:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
Do you have some kind of a purpose behind all these lies you're spewing?

Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Undisclosed Recipients
2003-12-01 18:33:40 UTC
Permalink
In alt.atheism on Mon, 01 Dec 2003 05:01:21 -0000,
Post by Bill McGinnis
Elsewhere, I presented the idea that Atheism is a religion, the religion
whose belief about God is that there is no God.
What a weird coincidence. The County Tax Assessor came by the house the other
day to verify the kind of car I have. In fact, he asked "What kind of car do
you have?"

I replied, "No car at all. I decided I didn't need one, so I gave it away."

"Ah," he said. "OK, I'll put you down for an assessment of $175, then."

"You are assessing me for a car I don't have?" I asked?

"Oh, my no. You see, there are many kinds of cars: Ford, Chrysler, GM,
Mercedes... and 'None'. The kind of car we will be taxing you on is 'None'.
That has a standard rate of $175 per annum. We'll send you the bill. Have a
nice day."

mdr
Maverick
2003-12-01 21:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.

Hope this helps :-)
BW
2003-12-01 21:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maverick
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
qwerty
2003-12-01 22:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by BW
Post by Maverick
Post by Bill McGinnis
IF ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION, THEN THEISM IS NOT A RELIGION
You're wrong.
No, he's correct.
Do you believe that Bart Simpson is real and the creator of all things? If
not, is that disbelief a religion?

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