Post by newzguys
They Did Not Have Homosexuals in the Bible nor Laws Until 1970's
People that say there is a sin of homosexuality in the bible are
just ignorant of the facts of history, and the law.
Up until the 1970's the laws against sodomy were only laws against
nonprocreative sex, not homosexual sex. The very word and concept of
homosexuality did not exist commonly until 1892. Before this time
any attempt to say a law or a sin in the bible is directed
toward homosexuals is impossible. "The modern terms homosexuality
and heterosexuality do not apply to an era that had not yet
articulated these distinctions." Lawrence and Garner v. Texas US, 03
It is clear that the existence of homosexuality predates the 1970s and
even the 19th century. That societies did not always legally
distinguish between homosexuality and other forms of sexual behavior
deemed perverted, may be true. However, it is clear that the
distinction was known to homosexuals themselves and to society as
well. While the laws were neutral on homosexual vs. heterosexual
sodomy, enforcement was almost always directed at the former.
A quick search of the web finds many examples where homosexuality in
its modern sense was clearly known prior to 1800. For example:
1726: Mollies Arrested in London
England, 1726. Guided by the Societies for the Reformation of
Manners, police raided houses in London known as gathering places for
sodomites. In the slang of the day, these sodomites were called
mollies, a word that had earlier referred to female prostitutes. Their
gathering places, the molly houses, catered to a working class
clientele, people like butchers, upholsterers and clerks. The 1726
raids were the most thorough in the 1700s, and about 20 of the houses
were shut down.
Some of the houses that were raided were taverns, others were private
homes. Most accounts from the time describe a large room for drinking,
dancing, and socializing with an adjoining room called the chapel,
where men retired to have sex, or as they said, to "get married". The
first molly houses that historians have discovered appeared in London
in the 1690s. A series of prosecutions in 1699 and again in 1707,
along with well-known suicides of mollies who feared court trials, led
to public knowledge of this new species of sodomite.
One agent who had infiltrated the molly houses found men who "sat in
one another's lap, talked bawdy, and practiced a great many
indecencies". The men he observed there were feminine and called each
other "madam" or "your ladyship". They took on feminine names like
"Princess Seraphina", "Plump Nelly", and "Mary Magdalen". Some of the
men dressed in drag, and at least one, the Princess Seraphina, dressed
in drag most of the time, but cross dressers usually wore women's
clothes only within the relative safety of the molly houses. Ned Ward,
one of the forefathers of tabloid journalism, wrote an account of
scenes he had probably heard rumors about in his book The History of
the London Clubs (1709). The mollies, he wrote, "fancy themselves
women, imitating all the little vanities that custom has reconciled to
the female sex, affecting to speak, walk, tattle, curtsy, cry, scold,
and to mimic all manner of effeminacy...". Broadsheets published about
them referred to them as both "mollies" and "woman-haters".
Paris, 1715. Police inspector Simonnet and his two assistants
directed an unprecedented campaign to suppress and contain sodomy in
Paris, a problem that seemed to be growing at an alarming rate.
Inspector Simonnet, by all accounts a committed and incorruptible
policeman, pioneered the techniques of interrogation and entrapment
used in France throughout the 18th Century.
One favorite police method was to send informants to cruise known
meeting places for sodomites. The informants, called "flies" in
official records, chatted with suspected sodomites and if a man
signaled an interest in sex, the fly called nearby gendarmes to arrest
the victim. The flies were familiar with the ways of sodomites because
they themselves had been arrested for sodomy and in exchange for
favorable treatment - an exchange that amounted to blackmail - they
became agents of the police.
Before 1738, police records referred to same-sex eroticism as
"sodomy", a term coined by St. Peter Damian around 1050 in his Book of
Gomorrah. After 1738, the police adopted a different term,
"pederasty", the ancient Greek word for sex between men and boys. In
French usage, the word came to mean sex between two males, or even
between two females, regardless of the ages of the participants.
The change in terminology also reflected a change in perception. The
Catholic church had traditionally viewed sodomy as one of the sins of
luxury and idleness, a kind of debauchery that could tempt anyone, but
the French came to perceive the pederast as a special kind of person
with an unusual, perhaps inborn, sexual disposition. A second word
was often used to describe such a predilection, "antiphysique", a word
that highlighted the unnaturalness of same-sex desire.
Amsterdam, 1730. Dutch courts were shocked to learn of a widespread
sodomitical network spread throughout the major cities of the Dutch
Republic. In Utrecht, Zacharias Wilsma was arrested and charged with
sodomy and when questioned, he told his interrogators about
sodomitical contacts he had in the major Dutch cities, especially
Amsterdam. Utrecht officials sent Wilsma there to help Amsterdam
officials eliminate the sodomitical scourge from their city. In May,
1730, Wilsma testified against four men in an Amsterdam court. All
four were executed the next month.
The confessions of those convicted in the wake of Wilsma's testimony
revealed a sodomitical subculture with its own slang and meeting
places including "fun houses", as sodomites called the all-male
brothels, and two taverns. Men who left the taverns to have sex with
each other in public toilets were said to be "going to the office" and
they had names for their sexual practices: the "shaking out" meant
masturbation, the "dirty work" referred to anal intercourse.
Like England's mollies and Paris' pederasts, the subculture was
effeminate. Dutch sodomites used feminine nicknames and terms of
endearment. One commenator, a publicist named Justus van Effen,
described sodomites as "hermaphrodites in their minds" - a point of
view that would be independently popularized by Karl Ulrichs more than
100 years later. Several servants confessed to sexual relationships
with their masters and their master's friends, a familiarity that
Dutch society, dominated by an oligarchic class structure, found
threatening. From the standpoint of public opinion, these men were
not just casual sinners; sin was their way of life.
Thus it is clear that homosexuality as it is defined today has existed
and been publically known in Western culture for at least 300 years.
Even in the early 18th century it was recognized as an inborn, sexual
disposition. It would be naive to believe it has not existed since
the dawn of history, however society may have known, recognized and
acknowledged it at various times.
Indeed, contrary to Newzguys assertion that the acts of sodomy in the
Bible were religious heresies committed by heterosexuals who then
returned home to their wives, homosexual relationships were known in
Biblical times. The Emperor Nero was married to a young man for a
period of time. there would be much more documentation of this were
it not or the systematic destruction of homosexual literature in the
Library of Alexandria by the Christians.
Nevertheless, enough remains to form the basis of an extensive
bibliography on the topic. See:
The proven knowledge of homosexuality in history (by whatever name)
demolishes the argument that the writers of the Bible could not have
intended to proscribe this behavior on grounds other than idolatry.
The hateful vindictiveness in the Bible may well have extended to
other forms of sexuality as well, but that does not prove that they
were unaware of the nature of homosexuality.
The point is that the Bible is often a hateful book whether it is
condemning idolaters, homosexuals, masturbators or other practitioners
of victimless "crimes." This is reason enough for it not to be
considered a moral compass for the world today.
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab